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“Paradise Cities are Not the Solution”–2. Feedback Received


Continuing with the feedback received, answering comments: 
I suggest you join the Equal Money Forum for further discussion as Live Journal is not that practical for these means: http://equalmoney.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1587&p=2660#p2660

(Anonymous) ( wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 02:53 pm (local)

More research needed
**I’m not leaving this comment to attack you in any way. I just don’t want others to read this and think it is accurate”

The blog post is a perspective, an immediate correlation to the reality I see and live in – thus I am not stating it is ‘how it is’ – it’s just how things are when taking the proposal out of its cocoon.

“You don’t understand the movement. It is not a utopia like you and many many others have stated. It will not be some people living in the cities and others in mud. We understand that this will only work if these ideas are applied holistically.”

So you are saying that these type of cities would have to be built around the entire world? How on Earth is that even conceivable? That would be the correct application of ‘applied holistically’ so, I am still not getting a straight answer here.

“Many of the criticisms you have are addressed on TVP/TZM websites, and ironically, agree with you in some cases. I suggest you research the Venus Project more thoroughly. Watching the movies is only the very tip of the iceberg. Find some of Jacque’s lecture videos online. Operate scientifically, use critical thinking.

Have a great life! “

Jacque and Peter are still missing vital points: grounding themselves to this reality and grounding their ideas to an actual applicable and achievable way to create a betterment of this world and society – so far, no concrete plan son the table, all still ideas floating in the air.

We are here to simply point out what’s missing as you guys following a movement have to also realize what is it that you are actually following/supporting without taking into consideration the most important points as to how is that ever going to be placed into real-actual-physical application.

Getting rid of money is simply the first huge mistake being proposed –

Research the Equal Money System – ground yourself into Equality and until then, we will not stop.  
If Equality is considered within this movement, then both solutions will meet in the way. That’s a certainty – if not, then we may know it was never actually real. 



(Anonymous) ( wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 05:30 pm (local)

Subject: your critique of the zeitgeist movement


I’ve been following the information presented by the zeitgeist movement
for about a year, and I happened upon your journal through my google
alerts about it.

I just wanted to mention to you that your points about building super
cities while billions of people starve is bang on, but what you’re
missing about the intent of the movement altogether is that we know that
nothing like that has ever been tried before.. so to build one is just
the first stage.”

See the common sense point here: how are you even going to build an entire CITY in this world – and with no money? How is that not contradicting itself from the proposals of the movement?
The fact that it hasn’t been ‘tried before’ doesn’t mean that it’s the best proposal/solution at all. Thus such first stage would take a huge period of time to only THEN see ‘if it works’ while the world crumbles apart. Nice one.

“If it all takes off and it all happens, it’s with the
full intent of spreading ready and easy access to housing and food for
everyone in the human civilization, so long as it’s their desire to

The first line is anything but concrete and actually flying high into the air –nothing will ‘happen’ and nothing will ‘take off’ with no practical actual steps and achievable/doable proper planning.

Before even getting to the point of trying to provide housing/food for everyone on the planet, you will have to explain to me how is that going to work within the context of economy, how is that going to be ‘given’, how is that even going to be managed? Who’s going to be managing that? Which is most important to then know who will be ‘the head’ of this entire scheme.

“With the application of things like vertical hydroponic
farming and the like, food could be produced in such abundance that those
who are going without now, could be helped from afar, at the same time as
developing similar technologies local to the people who are suffering so
they can have the means right in their own backyard.”

That sounds ‘nice’ in theory though, who’s gonna provide all the money to create such technology?
who’s gonna decide who takes what first and who’ll have to ‘wait in line’ before such stuff gets to them?
Who will be working to actually construct/manufacture and deliver this type of technology?
And once again: with no money?

and no actual consideration of the entire food industry to create those changes? As long as these solutions aren’t backed up by an actual plan that considers how these seemingly ‘small changes’ affect the whole in a structural way, they are still not realistic and can be considered as simple pipe-dreams.

“It’s a global
movement, which is why there is no push to fundraise and build the
happytime future city for the zeitgeist-minded people to go off to and
live happily ever after while everyone else goes without.”

I see contradiction – it is a global movement yet not really wanting to create solid funds – this then shows the lack of understanding of how this world works and moves which is all by/through/as MONEY.

So, then if you say that there is no push for the building of such cities, then what are the first concrete steps then?

“Besides, if
there’s one place that DOES figure out how to take care of themselves,
and the shit hits the fan in the next town over, the people from that
town will come to try to take their share anyways. That’s why it’d never
work to do all of that in isolation.”

I highlight ‘and the shit hits the fan’ which is revealing part of the motivation for millions following the Zeitgeist Movement – rather wanting to have a boat to escape when things go wrong which would only be our own manifested consequences as the entire disregard of ourselves as Life as equals and thus abusing/harming ourselves and every living being in this planet. Thus the solution would have to be an immediate application for EVERYONE equally – not only ‘Zeitgeist sympathizers’ which is something I still don’t get any proper information on the actual concrete plan to follow for that.

‘Come and try to take their share anyways’ – see the underlying anarchism and total mayhem ‘getting rid of money’ can create? Lol, human beings cannot be trusted at all – I would certainly NOT want to depend on a human being to ‘get my share’- this is HOW and WHY Money is required – it’s plain stupidity believing that the ‘good will of men’ will care for one another as equals – Not yet, not now, not even less without money as a means of making sure that everyone gets the equal amount as basic foundation to live.

So, if it’s not an ‘isolated movement’, then what are the actual-practical steps applicable to all human beings–regardless of them being ‘literate’ on the movement?

Consider those that have no proper education to even grasp the ideas you are presenting, consider those that cannot afford having ‘internet’ to read your website.

What’s the thing even the poorest most isolated beings know about? Money.


“And also, an aside, everything in Jacque Fresco’s drawings and concepts
is very possible to do today.. we just, as a society, choose not to,
because there’s more money in decay than a lasting infrastructure. What
happens to all the plumbers jobs when the pipes are built to last? Much
better to keep the economy going with halfassed stuff”

The fact that these are all ‘aside’ points shows that there is no actual core of it as a base foundation to develop this.

IT’s not about ‘inventions’ and ‘lasting infrastructure’ – that is obviously being created as non-lasting due to the necessity to keep industries running, to keep creating profit and assuring the market of people depending on such goods/products/services as well as infrastructure – In my country for example, the worst type of materials are used to build highways because the government decides to take the most for their own pocket and ensuring that such highway will only last for their term in office – and so the cycle repeats ad nauseam. All because of Money and profit. Thus yes when building things to last human activity will change – but we first focus on what’s HERE.

“Speaking of Haiti, I, and many, many others like me, I’m sure would be
thrilled to go down there and help with the cleanup and restoration
efforts, but can’t, because we’re busy with tedious jobs so we can make
the money to cover rent at home.”

There is much more events like this that will take place on Earth, even if we wanted to help and restore and ‘save’ it is impossible – it is manifested consequences that are part of human beings realizing the extent of harm and abuse done unto life – though that seems to be out of common sense realizations for people within this world – as if it was a simple casualty.

Charity, people ‘helping’ is not a definitive solution either – that entire country would have to be rebuilt to be stable again – that requires MONEY for now which is not there thus, as long as we don’t solve the MONEY problem, not much can be done. It would be definitely useless to go there while you create further debt in your life.

“I just can’t see how giving everyone the same amount of meaningless
pieces of paper, or 1’s and 0’s in a digital bank account is going to fix
anything. Especially in areas where there IS no work, there are no jobs,
and they’d spend all their ‘equal money’, some food company would take it
all, give them a month’s worth, and then we’d be back where we started.”

We are giving Money a Real-Physical Meaning – just as resource-based economy but with a VALUE in it – a numerical, counting tool that is worth Life-Support and that can be given to everyone Equally. For that there must be obvious significant changes as to how Money is conceived now and thus also understanding the entire system and its intricate relationship with money as value upon everything that is here.

Equal Money wouldn’t imply a silly idea such as ‘placing all your money in front of the banks’ and jumping happily – no.

Equal Money System implies a complete change in how we as humans and all living beings exist in this world within the single First step of changing the value of Money as Life: Money = Life given to everyone as a first step to empower everyone Equally – this is an All-Inclusive system practically applied by money.

Thus if everyone receives Life Support = Money, we all have an Equal starting point to then start taking care of the places that require to be Equalized to have a Dignified Living – thus we are implying that places with the most necessity are Priority to support.

Companies would be part of the system, schools, entertainment everything would be part of the same Equal Life system otherwise any type of clever/greedy human being can take advantage – this is how control is required, this is How and Why Money is required for proper management of resources and services for all people. Now, this single point obviously will take time and first of all understanding which is then requiring Re-Education.

People will have to re-educate themselves to even use money, to work with themselves to stop greed, to stop only caring about themselves and start realizing that we have to care about each one as Equals – which is the one single basic point we are practically working with at this moment as an individual Process of Self Honesty and Self Forgiveness to practically physically change how we live within as individuals in our reality so that we can then start externalizing this change into our society – this has to be taken through actual Education which is already Here and being walked by many in this World as part of Desteni as the Equal Money System 

So suggest you take a look at it, it’s all about Practical Application – otherwise it’s easy to fly high in the sky.



(Anonymous) ( wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 05:54 pm (local)

Subject: You are 99% correct!

“I must say i love you! i read the whole thing with this huge smile on my
face. You are correct. And what’s so funny about it is that what you say
is exactly what The Zeitgeist Movement tries to point out to the public
and its member. The basic, single most important and first step is to
change the values of people today, to re-educate. That’s exactly what
Zeitgeist is talking about.

This is what is said in Zeitgeist: Addendum (the second film): "We must
mobilize and educate everyone about the inherent corruption of our
current world system. Along with the only true sustainable solution:
Declaring all the natural resources on the planet as the common heritage
to all people.[…]

The choice lies with you. You can continue to be a slave under the
current system, and see endless wars, depressions and injustice across
the globe while play-kidding yourself with vain entertainment and
materialistic garbage. Or, you can focus your energy on true, lasting,
holistic change. Which actually has the realistic ability to support and
free humans, with no-one left behind. But, in the end, the most relevant
change must first occur inside of you. The real revolution is the
revolution of consciousness and each one of us first needs to eliminate
the diversionary, materialistic noise we have been conditioned to think
is true. While discovering, amplifying and aligning with the signal,
coming from our true, empirical oneness. It is up to you." – Peter Joseph
1:55:47 to 1:57:13 Zeitgeist: Addendum”

Okay, sounds cool and wonderful –nice motive-action but: how is it then planned to be placed into actual Action, how is that able to be practically taken by everyone? If you for example have ‘made that decision’, what are You doing and how are you Practically Living that Inner-Change, that Self-Change?

“You are a wonderful human and the world needs more that thinks like you.
It would be amazing if someone like you helped us to create a better
world for everyone. Please look further into Zeitgeist and the Venus
Project to fully understand them, I’m sorry to say it but 2h and 40 min
can’t explain a whole new way of thinking and a whole new society.

Please contact me and ask me anything if you have any question or want to
discuss the subject”

//David – member of The Zeitgeist Movement for 2 years, thinking and
fighting for all the starving humans in the world”

I am already ‘there’ Practically moving myself walking the Process of Self Honesty as a way to Re-Educate ourselves to be able to co-exist as Equals in this world, developing Common Sense as applying what’s Best for All in everything we do, say and act upon. Thus if Zeitgeist’s solution is really ‘What’s Best for All’ we will meet on the way – if not then we’ll know that some steps had to be taken and considered first. 

Thus we are already a group of people destined to Support ourselves first to walk this Process while also working in developing the Equal Money System which I suggest you take a look at which will enable you to see the missing points that I’ve pointed out in the original post as a critique to the Zeitgeist Movement.

We do have concrete-applicable plans and we are already walking them – we are an active group around the web – you can research us as Desteni and Equal Money System – we’ll pop up there.

Give yourself the opportunity to read about Equality and how this is the one single Principle that must be the directive point within all attempts of projects/solutions as a lasting and consistent way to implement a better life, a dignified Life for every single person in this world.

Visit the Equal Money System website as well as watching all videos and material available in YouTube.

Thanks for your comment, David.

Marlen Vargas Del Razo

“Paradise Cities are Not the Solution”–1. Feedback Received

I’ll be taking some time to go through the comments posted in this livejournal blog reached by members of the Zeitgeist Movement which I see it as cool to create a point of clarity and understanding without having to ‘oppose’ and fight – that’s the first thing I find cool about all of them which I’ll be replying here as another blog-entry as livejournal does suck at managing comments and having proper information of people when commenting –except for those that left their names and emails for further contact – thanks, accountability starts with speaking in one’s own name.


Okay so here’s the first reply:

(Anonymous) ( wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 04:32 pm (local)


Subject: Zeitgeist Movement
“Every problem you have stated in the opinion above is addressed by the
ZM, not as fixed or dogmatic but as an ongoing conversation about those
subjects. The ZM has as its primary goal the education of the population
of the world into a sustainable future, by the realization that existing
systems do not work and in fact cause most of the unsustainable factors,
and science has already discovered means to create a sustainable future.
It’s all about how people think. 
We choose to go with science, because it seems to give the most reliable
working data. After all, Science is the study of Nature, and that is the
direction of human survival.”

Peter Josephs’ approach to the application of the scientific method as ourselves – meaning outside of the regular contrived ways of ‘science’ itself, is cool as a way to get to know ourselves- though the starting point has to be re-evaluated – we suggest Self Honesty as we realize that as you say “It’s all about how people think” and thoughts driven into actions is what has created this entire reality as it is. Human Survival is systematic, meaning there’s more to it than simple human observation – an actual understanding would imply getting to know how this reality has been created, how we’ve been existing as Mind Consciousness Systems within this reality and how we’ve created the current Money System as that Energetic-Enslavement which has defined the entire ‘relationship’ that we have and create with anything/anyone in this world – thus it’s a bit more than just observing, but getting to know the core of how and why we have as human race never actually evolved but just shifted through pictures – without ever actually in essence changing the infamous ‘human nature’ which is the core point we’re looking at and directing-towards in this post.

Such ‘reliable working data’ as science is subject to the observer as the mind that hasn’t actually been able to see itself outside of the mind – thus the relevance of getting to know the facts of this reality to understand how the entire system was deliberately set up to fail to live in a balanced-harmonious way. This is why Re-Education as a deliberate repetition of self-willed actions is an active way of changing such human nature to start developing common sense – as always thinking, speaking, writing and communicating what’s best for all and live by such ways through a Process of Self Honesty – and thus to actually implement it in each one’s lives as actual-actions, deeds, words that are lived that can definitely create a better understanding of this reality as our own creation – hence realizing the focus for now, must be the individual itself –before thinking ‘out of the box’ from that perspective. First things first – focusing on self is the primary point as starting point to be the actual change.

“We consider almost everything else to be irrelevant. There are people of
all religions in the ZM.

Religions imply separation of people – religions have lead to wars – wars are obviously Not best for all as they end up in conflicts of harm and abuse towards fellow man when standing within a self-created identification as part of a group/culture/race above all human basic equality-points. Thus, we don’t support them, we don’t allow them as they are in itself a tampering point to realize Equality and Self Responsibility fully – as the moment you believe in something, you must know you are delegating a part of yourself onto something/someone else –be it greater or not – the single allowance of anything separate from ourselves is indeed separation.

“The first movie Peter made, Zeitgeist: The Movie, was his personal art
project before he met Jacque Fresco and the Zeitgeist Movement started.
The movies after that gives data as to why we have come to the
conclusions we have. But the movies are only a tiny part of the Movement,
with the ongoing conversation being far more important.”


Sticking to simplicity it’s what works best in terms of ‘coming to terms’ with anything – this reality requires simple solutions, simple actions that can be taken by any individual human being that’s simply willing to start caring to bring about a solution to this world. Thus this ‘task’ isn’t taken out of self, but it is instead Embraced AS Self First as we understand how opinions are the building blocks of illusion and opinions create differences that stand in the way of common sense = what’s best for all Life in Equality – that’s the principle all living beings should consider before engaging in any con.versation about changing the world. 

“We are not about cities… that is just showing what is technologically
possible for everyone on the planet, if they choose to live in cities…
if they don’t, that’s fine too, and what we are about is making it
possible for everyone on the planet to have vastly better than their
survival necessities, and do it without even wage slavery, AND do it
without ecological destruction. No livingry is discounted or ignored.
Weaponry, on the other hand is absolutely rejected.”


Technology is a great tool indeed, though it is just that – a tool, a medium to propagate this ideas for now and unite people through the internet. We stick with what’s here – of course much can be ‘projected’ on to the future if one is able to do it, but as I stated in my original post-entry, how is that relevant to this current state of the world, take a look at third world countries – they first require food to have sufficient energy to be able to attend school and not be malnourished and incapable of engaging in any learning activities. Thus the importance of first Equalizing Energy for All as that basic ‘fuel’ to live- which is then Equal Money and the solution we are presenting.

We are both standing for environmental care as ourselves, as an all inclusive system – caring for animals, plants, nature as ourselves and taking on the stand as Life-custodians on earth as how it should’ve always been –

Once again, Money is not the problem –we simply have to change the rules that are guiding the ways money exists and the ways it’s being used.

So, that’s a point to re-consider –again, simply to point it out as what we stand for not in means of creating any opposition at all – just pointing out what’s being missed.

“We are all about the basic causes that are starving a billion people on
this planet. We are all about changing the human behavior that is causing
the ecology, which is our common outer body, to disintegrate. And we are
all about people choosing to self-educate to understand how humanity can
live on this planet with a freedom and prosperity which exceeds all past


Such ‘freedom’ cannot exist as long as the actual mind-patterns that have been transmitted through and as DNA as how the entire human race exists now is what first must be taken on which is the result of the entire acceptance and allowance of ‘who we are’ as the mind. We can’t really be free until All are Free and even there, that freedom is still subject to our basic requirements to actually even consider in making such ‘freedom’ as a possibility in this world. It’s mostly a nice concept that uplifts the human into an ‘Ideal’ – not an actuality which is what very few people are really willing to see and understand = that’s self honesty and thus it is only through knowing our bounds and limitations, through living them, through working with them to transcend them that we can only then get to an actual living solution as ourselves – as individuals changing themselves. So far this has been a very tough point to take on as human nature is systematic in its functioning thus one has to really will oneself to change – caring doesn’t come naturally – and we make sure that we do really stand as what’s best for all without seeking any forms of ‘stepping outside of the box’ without first having taken Self-Responsibility for the entire creation as it is ourselves.

Thus, solutions won’t come that easy – long tough road as hard work is required to do this. By everyone, by each one.

“We are not about Utopia, which cannot exist, or forcing people in any
way, or causing or supporting revolution… we are not about arguing,
either, because we really don’t have to do that. The planetary situation
does our arguing for us. The survival impulse is a paradigm shift that is
global and includes everyone. We are a result of that, and all we have is
a set of ideas and information that is one option for human survival. It
is certainly not the only option although we can see that violence and
revolution will never produce the change we want to see.”


That clarifies the point that I saw through the movie as inciting for a ‘revolution’ as they state which involves dropping money in front of banks and revolting that way.

Yes, what’s best for all is non debatable – we simply all have to agree on basic terms that must be considered to create any actual change in this world and they are based upon all of the above.

Now, here’s the nitty gritty – ideas/knowledge without being placed into action result in simple idealism and inaction and thus just another pipe-dream= useless. And because we realize how this things take time, planning, resources as money, as people getting to understand how important this point is to get to create an actual standing –constant and consistent change, we are taking the first steps and working with ourselves as individuals within the process of learning and understanding how it is that all our actions affect the entire world – understanding how we’ve accepted and allowed this world as it is and thus taking self responsibility for our individual worlds to then be stable and HERE enough to start taking on our environment as ourselves – once again we cannot go trying to ‘fix the world’ without focusing on ourselves first – one must take care of the root of it all before wanting any fruition.

Thus, we have an actual walking step by step process going from the individual into the group, learning how we have to stop such type of mental individualism as ego that separates ourselves, that pushes everyone to think for themselves and their own ‘survival’ instead of being directing ourselves by what’s best for all – within this we direct, live, act, speak, write and share with the world as who we are as human beings observing themselves in self honesty, to expose the delusions that we create as the mind = creating the world as an exact replica of the mind. If we understand this point then it’s obvious we have to start taking on ourselves as our mind first to only then start considering on going any step further.

“And we are not monolithic, or following a dogma or the leadership of
anyone. Jacque Fresco is a 94 year old visionary who we respect and
listen to, but there is no ‘power’ in that since we will not force or
intimidate anyone. Peter is a talented filmmaker with a gift of
explaining complex subjects and a loving heart, and he ‘owns’ the main
zeitgeist site, but he is simply another respected voice in the movement,
he is not ‘leader’ to anyone in the movement who fully understand what we
are about.”


Equality within a group must be represented by an Equal participation of all participants –each one becoming an equal-leader – that’s what we are walking as and definitely learning a lot from each other, to recognizing ourselves in fellow human beings that probably in other times we would’ve feared and judged – so we’re stopping that and simply taking things within common sense so that we can stop our individual-races to become one single race, the human race that finally meets its goal: Equality as Life.

“Going from a few people to 500,000 people all over the planet in about
two years means we are growing fast, and members are at all levels of
understanding. This means that we have a wide diversity of opinions and
ideas which people develop and run with, within our basic understanding
of ‘Do No Harm’. We are trying to bring about a change of mind, and
therefore action, for a world with 6+ billion people and we want to have
that change be as peaceful as the maturing of any human being going from
childhood into adulthood, and since only a good means can create a good
result, it must be peaceful, through voluntary self-education.”


Wanting stays in just that: a ‘want’, a ‘desire’ that doesn’t have any practical living-action plan to take on that want into a reality as a living-process of each one participating and joining the movement. I’d encourage those 500,000 people to start exposing themselves in Self Honesty as to how they exist within the deepest-chambers of their mind and thus having actual real introspection and insight upon how it is that we as individuals are creating this reality as ourselves – thus once again, everything is still remaining at an idealism level with no practical living application – which is what we are here certainly busy with, you can do proper research just in this livejournal blog which I began when getting to Desteni and see how one is actually able to start getting out of one’s own mind bubble into self-direction to care about this reality as a whole. Lots of Self Forgiveness required to make that ‘change’ a reality and most importantly, sticking to that Living Decision of doing what’s Best for All in all ways, always acting in accordance to Life and not ego.


We are actually realistic and we know that 6 billion people – almost 7 now – won’t be walking this process in Self Honesty because it takes an actual understanding to then get ourselves through this process in the most important life-commitment we can ever take within our existence – and this we are walking diligently, each day as ourselves, sharing with the world for all to see – and this, everyone that is able to self-reflect upon one’s world, that is able to communicate and write is suited with the basics to start this process of Self Honesty = actual Living Practical Application of the Principle of Equality as All to then re-educate ourselves not only as having more knowledge and information, but placing it into action as that which is relevant for all equally, practically.


“While many think that is impossible, science seems to show that it is,
and we can do it. We know it is a long term project, which might take
more than one generation, but it must be done right or the result will
not be good.”


Yes, taking the point here is vital – and yes it will take time though once again look at how ‘science’ is taking a major role in that – just plain observation from how it’s been written in your response here.

Best is to simply rely on the basics first as explained above within the ‘basic points’ of understanding ourselves as individuals, as our mind.

“We cannot live with the knowledge that our civilization is starving
billions, slaughtering thousands, and obliterating our ecology when we,
along with all the other people in the world conscious of that, have some
idea of what to do about it.”


We are Certain about what must be done, though it’s not the most ‘flashy’ solution out there as it’s not sugar for the ears of anyone – it is actually quite the opposite as for now the true-nature of the human must be revealed, exposed and thus dissected for everyone to see, to identify ourselves and to get to an actual understanding of our role as creators in this reality. ‘Civilization’ is simply the externalization of our mind in means of creating a septic environment to pretend to be ‘civilized’ monkeys which we know is not actually so and it stays within a single picture being presented as the mask of being ‘more evolved’ and ‘more techno-savvy’ but! The essence of the human being remains the same which is the very first point that needs to be taken on –once again, that in itself will take quite a lengthy amount of time as we have to make sure that this is then created as an educational-foundation for all human beings as without that, any other way of implementing a solution is doomed to fall as the basic foundation of it must be laid upon an overall understanding of us within this world as the units/cells of the entire body that must learn how to co-exist without harming, killing, abusing each other or of the resources as energy that’s being pumped for everyone – though yet not equally distributed – which is causing the cancer in this world. That is what must stop: ourselves from being such cancer in this whole that is ourselves.

Thanks for the reply and expanding upon the points exposed in the entry – it clarifies some – though seems there is still no definitive ways established on how to take that care and consideration into practical-living within a structured way that will lead to a solution that will be consider everyone as to have the same starting point to actually be able to Live and be Supported Equally by the single fact of being a living being in this world.

“You are always welcome to check into us more at
We also have a Teamspeak server so we
can have voice conversations about the ZM and it’s goals and methods.”


Cool, I also suggest you check out the website http://www.equalmoney.org

There’s ONE single goal that must be certain for ALL those that are wanting to create a change in this world: Equality – and that’s not debatable and the ways to get it must have a single easy simple starting point: Self.

Visit http://www.desteni.co.za, visit the forums where we share ourselves as the process and insights we live by when starting to take us individually to create a change within ourselves as part of taking Self Responsibility to then, become life-changing agents, life-coaching people that are able to support themselves and others as Equals. That’s real living practical day to day care.

Check it out – Thanks.


….next replies later –


thanks for reading.

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