Continuing with the feedback received, answering comments:
I suggest you join the Equal Money Forum for further discussion as Live Journal is not that practical for these means: http://equalmoney.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1587&p=2660#p2660
(Anonymous) (18.104.22.168) wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 02:53 pm (local)
“More research needed
**I’m not leaving this comment to attack you in any way. I just don’t want others to read this and think it is accurate”
The blog post is a perspective, an immediate correlation to the reality I see and live in – thus I am not stating it is ‘how it is’ – it’s just how things are when taking the proposal out of its cocoon.
“You don’t understand the movement. It is not a utopia like you and many many others have stated. It will not be some people living in the cities and others in mud. We understand that this will only work if these ideas are applied holistically.”
So you are saying that these type of cities would have to be built around the entire world? How on Earth is that even conceivable? That would be the correct application of ‘applied holistically’ so, I am still not getting a straight answer here.
“Many of the criticisms you have are addressed on TVP/TZM websites, and ironically, agree with you in some cases. I suggest you research the Venus Project more thoroughly. Watching the movies is only the very tip of the iceberg. Find some of Jacque’s lecture videos online. Operate scientifically, use critical thinking.
Have a great life! “
Jacque and Peter are still missing vital points: grounding themselves to this reality and grounding their ideas to an actual applicable and achievable way to create a betterment of this world and society – so far, no concrete plan son the table, all still ideas floating in the air.
We are here to simply point out what’s missing as you guys following a movement have to also realize what is it that you are actually following/supporting without taking into consideration the most important points as to how is that ever going to be placed into real-actual-physical application.
Getting rid of money is simply the first huge mistake being proposed –
Research the Equal Money System – ground yourself into Equality and until then, we will not stop.
If Equality is considered within this movement, then both solutions will meet in the way. That’s a certainty – if not, then we may know it was never actually real.
(Anonymous) (22.214.171.124) wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 05:30 pm (local)
Subject: your critique of the zeitgeist movement
I’ve been following the information presented by the zeitgeist movement
for about a year, and I happened upon your journal through my google
alerts about it.
I just wanted to mention to you that your points about building super
cities while billions of people starve is bang on, but what you’re
missing about the intent of the movement altogether is that we know that
nothing like that has ever been tried before.. so to build one is just
the first stage.”
See the common sense point here: how are you even going to build an entire CITY in this world – and with no money? How is that not contradicting itself from the proposals of the movement?
The fact that it hasn’t been ‘tried before’ doesn’t mean that it’s the best proposal/solution at all. Thus such first stage would take a huge period of time to only THEN see ‘if it works’ while the world crumbles apart. Nice one.
“If it all takes off and it all happens, it’s with the
full intent of spreading ready and easy access to housing and food for
everyone in the human civilization, so long as it’s their desire to
The first line is anything but concrete and actually flying high into the air –nothing will ‘happen’ and nothing will ‘take off’ with no practical actual steps and achievable/doable proper planning.
Before even getting to the point of trying to provide housing/food for everyone on the planet, you will have to explain to me how is that going to work within the context of economy, how is that going to be ‘given’, how is that even going to be managed? Who’s going to be managing that? Which is most important to then know who will be ‘the head’ of this entire scheme.
“With the application of things like vertical hydroponic
farming and the like, food could be produced in such abundance that those
who are going without now, could be helped from afar, at the same time as
developing similar technologies local to the people who are suffering so
they can have the means right in their own backyard.”
That sounds ‘nice’ in theory though, who’s gonna provide all the money to create such technology?
who’s gonna decide who takes what first and who’ll have to ‘wait in line’ before such stuff gets to them?
Who will be working to actually construct/manufacture and deliver this type of technology?
And once again: with no money?
and no actual consideration of the entire food industry to create those changes? As long as these solutions aren’t backed up by an actual plan that considers how these seemingly ‘small changes’ affect the whole in a structural way, they are still not realistic and can be considered as simple pipe-dreams.
“It’s a global
movement, which is why there is no push to fundraise and build the
happytime future city for the zeitgeist-minded people to go off to and
live happily ever after while everyone else goes without.”
I see contradiction – it is a global movement yet not really wanting to create solid funds – this then shows the lack of understanding of how this world works and moves which is all by/through/as MONEY.
So, then if you say that there is no push for the building of such cities, then what are the first concrete steps then?
there’s one place that DOES figure out how to take care of themselves,
and the shit hits the fan in the next town over, the people from that
town will come to try to take their share anyways. That’s why it’d never
work to do all of that in isolation.”
I highlight ‘and the shit hits the fan’ which is revealing part of the motivation for millions following the Zeitgeist Movement – rather wanting to have a boat to escape when things go wrong which would only be our own manifested consequences as the entire disregard of ourselves as Life as equals and thus abusing/harming ourselves and every living being in this planet. Thus the solution would have to be an immediate application for EVERYONE equally – not only ‘Zeitgeist sympathizers’ which is something I still don’t get any proper information on the actual concrete plan to follow for that.
‘Come and try to take their share anyways’ – see the underlying anarchism and total mayhem ‘getting rid of money’ can create? Lol, human beings cannot be trusted at all – I would certainly NOT want to depend on a human being to ‘get my share’- this is HOW and WHY Money is required – it’s plain stupidity believing that the ‘good will of men’ will care for one another as equals – Not yet, not now, not even less without money as a means of making sure that everyone gets the equal amount as basic foundation to live.
So, if it’s not an ‘isolated movement’, then what are the actual-practical steps applicable to all human beings–regardless of them being ‘literate’ on the movement?
Consider those that have no proper education to even grasp the ideas you are presenting, consider those that cannot afford having ‘internet’ to read your website.
What’s the thing even the poorest most isolated beings know about? Money.
“And also, an aside, everything in Jacque Fresco’s drawings and concepts
is very possible to do today.. we just, as a society, choose not to,
because there’s more money in decay than a lasting infrastructure. What
happens to all the plumbers jobs when the pipes are built to last? Much
better to keep the economy going with halfassed stuff”
The fact that these are all ‘aside’ points shows that there is no actual core of it as a base foundation to develop this.
IT’s not about ‘inventions’ and ‘lasting infrastructure’ – that is obviously being created as non-lasting due to the necessity to keep industries running, to keep creating profit and assuring the market of people depending on such goods/products/services as well as infrastructure – In my country for example, the worst type of materials are used to build highways because the government decides to take the most for their own pocket and ensuring that such highway will only last for their term in office – and so the cycle repeats ad nauseam. All because of Money and profit. Thus yes when building things to last human activity will change – but we first focus on what’s HERE.
“Speaking of Haiti, I, and many, many others like me, I’m sure would be
thrilled to go down there and help with the cleanup and restoration
efforts, but can’t, because we’re busy with tedious jobs so we can make
the money to cover rent at home.”
There is much more events like this that will take place on Earth, even if we wanted to help and restore and ‘save’ it is impossible – it is manifested consequences that are part of human beings realizing the extent of harm and abuse done unto life – though that seems to be out of common sense realizations for people within this world – as if it was a simple casualty.
Charity, people ‘helping’ is not a definitive solution either – that entire country would have to be rebuilt to be stable again – that requires MONEY for now which is not there thus, as long as we don’t solve the MONEY problem, not much can be done. It would be definitely useless to go there while you create further debt in your life.
“I just can’t see how giving everyone the same amount of meaningless
pieces of paper, or 1’s and 0’s in a digital bank account is going to fix
anything. Especially in areas where there IS no work, there are no jobs,
and they’d spend all their ‘equal money’, some food company would take it
all, give them a month’s worth, and then we’d be back where we started.”
We are giving Money a Real-Physical Meaning – just as resource-based economy but with a VALUE in it – a numerical, counting tool that is worth Life-Support and that can be given to everyone Equally. For that there must be obvious significant changes as to how Money is conceived now and thus also understanding the entire system and its intricate relationship with money as value upon everything that is here.
Equal Money wouldn’t imply a silly idea such as ‘placing all your money in front of the banks’ and jumping happily – no.
Equal Money System implies a complete change in how we as humans and all living beings exist in this world within the single First step of changing the value of Money as Life: Money = Life given to everyone as a first step to empower everyone Equally – this is an All-Inclusive system practically applied by money.
Thus if everyone receives Life Support = Money, we all have an Equal starting point to then start taking care of the places that require to be Equalized to have a Dignified Living – thus we are implying that places with the most necessity are Priority to support.
Companies would be part of the system, schools, entertainment everything would be part of the same Equal Life system otherwise any type of clever/greedy human being can take advantage – this is how control is required, this is How and Why Money is required for proper management of resources and services for all people. Now, this single point obviously will take time and first of all understanding which is then requiring Re-Education.
People will have to re-educate themselves to even use money, to work with themselves to stop greed, to stop only caring about themselves and start realizing that we have to care about each one as Equals – which is the one single basic point we are practically working with at this moment as an individual Process of Self Honesty and Self Forgiveness to practically physically change how we live within as individuals in our reality so that we can then start externalizing this change into our society – this has to be taken through actual Education which is already Here and being walked by many in this World as part of Desteni as the Equal Money System
So suggest you take a look at it, it’s all about Practical Application – otherwise it’s easy to fly high in the sky.
(Anonymous) (126.96.36.199) wrote:
Feb. 1st, 2011 05:54 pm (local)
Subject: You are 99% correct!
“I must say i love you! i read the whole thing with this huge smile on my
face. You are correct. And what’s so funny about it is that what you say
is exactly what The Zeitgeist Movement tries to point out to the public
and its member. The basic, single most important and first step is to
change the values of people today, to re-educate. That’s exactly what
Zeitgeist is talking about.
This is what is said in Zeitgeist: Addendum (the second film): "We must
mobilize and educate everyone about the inherent corruption of our
current world system. Along with the only true sustainable solution:
Declaring all the natural resources on the planet as the common heritage
to all people.[…]
The choice lies with you. You can continue to be a slave under the
current system, and see endless wars, depressions and injustice across
the globe while play-kidding yourself with vain entertainment and
materialistic garbage. Or, you can focus your energy on true, lasting,
holistic change. Which actually has the realistic ability to support and
free humans, with no-one left behind. But, in the end, the most relevant
change must first occur inside of you. The real revolution is the
revolution of consciousness and each one of us first needs to eliminate
the diversionary, materialistic noise we have been conditioned to think
is true. While discovering, amplifying and aligning with the signal,
coming from our true, empirical oneness. It is up to you." – Peter Joseph
1:55:47 to 1:57:13 Zeitgeist: Addendum”
Okay, sounds cool and wonderful –nice motive-action but: how is it then planned to be placed into actual Action, how is that able to be practically taken by everyone? If you for example have ‘made that decision’, what are You doing and how are you Practically Living that Inner-Change, that Self-Change?
“You are a wonderful human and the world needs more that thinks like you.
It would be amazing if someone like you helped us to create a better
world for everyone. Please look further into Zeitgeist and the Venus
Project to fully understand them, I’m sorry to say it but 2h and 40 min
can’t explain a whole new way of thinking and a whole new society.
Please contact me and ask me anything if you have any question or want to
discuss the subject”
//David – member of The Zeitgeist Movement for 2 years, thinking and
fighting for all the starving humans in the world”
I am already ‘there’ Practically moving myself walking the Process of Self Honesty as a way to Re-Educate ourselves to be able to co-exist as Equals in this world, developing Common Sense as applying what’s Best for All in everything we do, say and act upon. Thus if Zeitgeist’s solution is really ‘What’s Best for All’ we will meet on the way – if not then we’ll know that some steps had to be taken and considered first.
Thus we are already a group of people destined to Support ourselves first to walk this Process while also working in developing the Equal Money System which I suggest you take a look at which will enable you to see the missing points that I’ve pointed out in the original post as a critique to the Zeitgeist Movement.
We do have concrete-applicable plans and we are already walking them – we are an active group around the web – you can research us as Desteni and Equal Money System – we’ll pop up there.
Give yourself the opportunity to read about Equality and how this is the one single Principle that must be the directive point within all attempts of projects/solutions as a lasting and consistent way to implement a better life, a dignified Life for every single person in this world.
Visit the Equal Money System website as well as watching all videos and material available in YouTube.
Thanks for your comment, David.
Marlen Vargas Del Razo