Tag Archives: religions

460. American Pastoral: My Reflection

I recently watched the movie ‘American Pastoral’ and I can say it became a very interesting reflection to myself and my past in the role of a teenage daughter within a family. In fact, I wanted to catch this movie in the theatres because I watched the trailer and saw the plot related to a ‘typical American family’ that sees the only child  – female – involved in extremist political groups that started shaping her character to a point of becoming a terrorist.

There were moments of her ‘early stages’ of rebellion at home that reminded me so much of myself, like how this girl is screaming at the television news and calling them ‘fuckers’ and just becoming insta-angry at what’s being said on TV. Yep, been there, done that many times, creating a constant battle with the point of ‘having the TV on’ and the news themselves, getting pissed and worried about everything that was happening, blaming the corporations, the politicians the ‘unaware people’ etc. – as I’ve written many times in these blogs already.

But this is not the only point, in the whole history I was able to see the extremes of what happens when there’s a child within a family where the parents are the epitome of ‘perfection’ as in ‘model individuals’ according to the usual social standards – the father being the popular American football player in school that becomes successful in his business/life, marrying a lady that had been a beauty queen and essentially having all the ingredients to be the ‘perfect family.’ Yet, their child from a very early age starts to react to that, desiring the opposite of what her parents consider to be a mark of success and tradition. She starts doing the opposite like affiliating herself with ‘political groups’ that want to essentially disrupt any sense of ‘American Dream’ or ‘normalcy’ at that time – 1960’s, 1970’s in America – starts talking about being anti war, anti capitalism and being constantly pissed off at the world, at the system and at her parents for being ‘so perfect.’

I could relate to that so much based on how I was back then. I didn’t take it that far into becoming an extremist, but I very well know I could have gone into some sort of extremes to antagonize – and that’s the keyword here – whatever is considered as ‘normal’ or ‘mainstream’ or ‘moral’ to any society. My way of challenging this was through the way I behaved, talked, dressed, my preferences, my relationship preferences, the ways in which I had ‘fun’ all of what I built as myself was precisely a way to ‘unconsciously’ rebel and set myself aside from the rest of my family, a way to make myself the ‘black sheep’ and ‘show them’ that I wasn’t going to be like them, which means I was existing in judgment of them, their ways/behaviors, preferences, traditions and the rest of ‘who they are’ in an attempt to ‘change them,’ to ‘make others care’, to ‘have them open their eyes!’– wrong way of course! But I thought that was the way back then.

Here, I know that many might have gone through something similar to this in their teenage years, which is kind of common at some point in everyone’s life, though here the key is looking at creating a healthy balance between awareness and ignorance, between considering ‘the world out there’ and one’s own life and doings.  Therefore I share this so as to not follow through the ways of the people in the movie where they start reprimanding and preventing the girl from having contact with others, only causing the inevitability of her running away from home – but instead, be able to understand that phase of ‘awakening’ of sorts that many teenagers might go through and so, making it that phase where parents can be understanding and considerate of that phase, not jumping into antagonizing it or fearing it or attempting to curb it with ‘locking them up’ either – in a school or their room or ‘away from home’, but creating a space of comprehension of what this desire to ‘show the bad and the ugly’ of the world and being interested in acknowledging it in fact means, which is also why as parents one would have to first and foremost have already gone through that phase of also developing some introspection to be willing to face and see all those things that we usually hide away from in the idea of ‘ignorance is bliss’.

 

american pastoral

 

In the movie the daughter becomes that embodiment of ‘becoming aware of all the things that the parents were oblivious of’ or simply not caring much about – yet she took it to an extreme in order to make a statement, in order to ‘rebel’ against the status-quo. Yet she would eventually find out that becoming an ‘extremist’ is not the way forward and it gets to a situation where it compromises her own health and stability for the sake of ‘caring for the world or others’ and turning it into a religion, which is what happened to her.

But without going into the movie itself so much, bringing it back to myself I could see how I could have gone into certain extremes in my life in some similar ways as Merry in the movie, and I am so thankful that I found the Desteni message relatively early on in my life to prevent myself from going further down the rabbit hole and till this day, still walk my process of ‘stopping antagonizing’ the world, stopping my anger and sadness in relation to all things that we usually go blissfully unaware of, realizing that becoming emotional and a ‘fighter’ myself against everyone is not the way, will not show to people an answer but only will endorse fighting and blaming endlessly, which is pointless, absolutely pointless to the objective of learning self-responsibility and actually doing something about it to stand as that solution we usually only get ‘pissed’ about others not doing so for themselves or ‘the world.’

Here then I can stand as proof that no matter how much one gets angry/pissed at ‘the world’ or attempts to do certain extreme ways to ‘get people’s attention’ it one won’t actually change anything, it won’t get a message through either, one won’t actually in fact contribute to anything but only enhance the usual ‘war mentality’ when we go ‘fighting against everything that we define is wrong!’ and becoming of a belligerent nature that is ‘non-stopping’ for all the wrong reasons. I can see myself in that diligence and belligerence that Merry – the daughter – had in so many ways, but I’ve learned to redirect that diligence to my own self-support, to supporting others to learn how to also stand and live by principles that we can absolutely then prove to ourselves and show to ourselves what it means to ‘be the solution’ in this world, instead of going fighting and blaming and even inflicting damage upon others in order to ‘make a statement.’

It’s really silly how the protesting nature exists in us which has its origins in our tantrums as children and making it a point to ‘possess’ ourselves with anger and create a whole drama to get what we want – well at least that’s what happened in my case and even if I didn’t get what I wanted, I developed a relationship to anger from a very early age and later on suppressed it in so many ways, only to later on have to re-open it through this process of knowing myself, taking responsibility for my mind, my body, my everyday living and this thus becoming a point that I have been walking for some years now in order to Stop the fight within myself and ‘towards others in the world’ – but instead understand my reactions, decide to stop them in the realization that: my anger, my rage won’t do anything in this world of substantial change, it doesn’t nurture anything, it only feeds the war mentality.

So I instead self-forgive these emotional experiences as the ‘habitual me’ I had become, and direct myself to focus on my own self-creation which practically means going changing, aligning, redirecting every bit of myself that may want to ‘slip through the cracks’ into the old patterns of ‘blame’ and ‘anger’, then I make it a point to rather change that which I judge ‘outside’ in the inside of myself, learning to live words that are supportive and dedicating my life to do this with myself and those that I come to interact and support on a daily basis.

This then prevents any ‘extremist’ behavior, this then prevents ‘terrorists’ as well, this then prevents sects, cults and religious extremism where people get so diligent and belligerent with a set of beliefs that they are willing to ‘walk over others’ – harm, abuse, discriminate, hate – in order to ‘make a point’ that stands in a morality point of what’s good or bad, missing out the equality equation: what’s best for all, what’s the common sense solution, what’s our common/one and equal responsibility for what exists in this world, what’s humbleness in considering others?

And these set of principles and questions above has assisted me a lot whenever my ‘belligerent and extremist mindset’ wants to pop out, fueled with some righteousness which usually becomes a way to justify our anger or hatred, which is once again only self-interest, only believing it will ‘make a point’ but it doesn’t, it only alienates people, it only makes us walking ‘angry fits’ that show no solution at all.

Instead  I’ve found and proven that actually developing humbleness, consideration, embracing others as myself is a much more self-challenging process because then I don’t pose myself as ‘superior’ and ‘more aware’ than others believing ‘I know what’s right and wrong’ –  but instead have to challenge myself to find ways to talk to any person, about any topic, understand ‘where they are’ in their life/process of awareness and recognize that the best way to assist anything or anyone in this world, is by first focusing on changing me, stopping my belligerent nature and instead becoming an embracing one, one that understands what ‘living as equals’ in fact means, and this is then the process here which has actually supportive results that emerge as ripples here and there, without me even having to ‘push’ for it, because we simply become the ‘living words,’ we just are being the living examples and that’s as far as we can go when it comes to ‘changing the world’ really, doing so with one’s words, thoughts and deeds in every  moment that we are alive… but wanting to change ‘others’ and ‘fighting them’ is definitely not the way at all.

So, I suggest checking out this movie also for parents because the relationship between them and toward the child is quite an interesting one, if anything one that can leave aspects to learn how to prevent to the extremes in the story, and rather focusing on channeling/redirecting a teenager’s ‘awakening’ into one of self-creation and self-support  

Enjoy 🙂

 

American Pastoral Merry

 

If you’d like some support in preventing and being 1+ person that stands up for life in a practical day to day living manner, check out:


204. Opposing the System: Elitist Act of Irresponsibility

Revolutions and Dissidence as so-called Acts of Goodness while protected by money to keep fueling the same system that’s being opposed.

I was taught to fear the bad/ negative/ evil within both the context of morals as in ‘doing good things’ to be a ‘good person/ good girl’ and also within the aspect of fearing ‘dark entities’/ demons at home. I know this doesn’t sound something ‘usual’ but I was brought up more within a belief in the afterlife and a ‘white light brotherhood’ than anything Christian/ Catholic like churches and the bible etc., masses on Sundays or anything like that. This was all based on a bad experience my mother had when she was in her nun school and found a priest having sexual intercourse with a nun. The rest is history – I got to know of that story in a watered down version as a child, being old enough to realize the scam that the church was. Being religious in this country as in any other is a matter of ‘belonging’ and so I also had my phase of wanting to be ‘good’ and ‘fit in’ with the rest of the people, mostly because of the school I went to, which was a Jesuit one – great education, bad idea trying to play good and benevolent when attending the masses, in the end it just turned into a spiteful game I played toward all things catholic-church-the pope etc. and creating an entire personality about it that I have walked through in the past as well.

I would question a lot why the hell on Earth was the Vatican so filthy rich having gold all over while priests were supposed to have some ‘poverty vow’ or something – as well as a ‘chastity’  and many other flaws that I felt just perverted by even seeking to get a second hand communion paper because I believed that I had to have such paper in order to be able to feel good about having some form of sacrament other than baptism. And this became just another ‘stand point’ for me to simply begin pursuing being ‘good’ at my own terms. I liked the idea of god not being bound to a stone and rock temple/ houses like churches, it really seemed quite bogus to me to believe anything the church said for that matter like the Adam and Eve story which was nothing else but a similar story to white snow and the seven dwarfs to me for that matter, I just ‘tagged along’ to not question it too much – not to say that I once did try and learn ‘Catholicism’ in those lessons given to children my age (around 9) within my attempt to be a ‘good girl’ and dropped out after the first class, lol.  I also did it because of my friend’s family being very devoted and so, I didn’t want to be a ‘heretic’ as I was usually called as well at home sometimes, which was fine. I mean, I grew up in a house where you could not spot one single cross on the walls or on people as in ‘necklaces’ or earrings etc. as it was plain ludicrous to see a gory Jesus-look alike dummy figurine nailed to a wooden cross as a sign of any benevolence, I was in fact mostly haunted by any images I would encounter like that in people’s homes – lol even holograms – you know those images that change when you move from side to side – of Jesus shedding blood on the cross, bizarre kitsch shit to say the least, which is probably what religion has become, nothing but a merchandising fan base wherein having a button that says you’re the member of a club makes you feel in any way ‘special.’ To me seeing crosses in people’s houses was something similar to what for a Christian would be like to see a satanic symbol, not to mention that my white/light community made me stop wearing one of those David star symbols because it was apparently ‘not good’ lol– but that’s just how I grew up.

I seriously never got the point of him dying for our sins and I only now get the whole picture thanks to the Crucifixion of Jesus interviews that, I must admit, I began listening to with my left overs of ‘skepticism’ toward the whole Jesus story, only now realizing to what extent I was also wearing the ‘atheist coat’ for that matter, to abdicate any form of responsibility toward this institutionalized existence of good/ evil.

 

And so, the context I grew up with was obviously being overtly open about my criticism toward religious ‘authorities’ within my standard of ‘I am a good person because I ‘’unmask’ the lies and the false preachers of god.’ However, I was following a belief as well, about there being these light beings that were here to help me and my loved ones to ‘make it through’ in our lives, and ‘give light’ to the entities at home that would ‘lurk around’ from time to time. Lol, we were absolutely oblivious back then how the Earth was all Demon-based.

So that’s how I was so righteous boasting against the church, because I had my ‘true faith’ and ‘verified’ by these seemingly ‘heaven sent’ solutions to our lives in times of distress – I mean, I’m talking about stuff like my sister losing a watch – an ‘expensive gift’ in her 15th birthday – and these mediums/ light beings whatever suddenly making it appear underneath the couch  – and so there were all of these things that were always consulted with them in order to ensure that we remained with our ‘safety’ at home, that we were always ‘supported’ by these seemingly invisible beings that would care for us enough to always ‘be there.’ However, how it all started crumbling down when bad stuff happened, and we were left questioning: well, where the hell is our security? why did that happen? we are good people!’

 

See the trivial aspects of all of this? the narrow-viewed of what my reality consisted of? Only ensuring that WE as my family remain safe/ secured and using any form of god/ heavenly support as a way to also feel safe/ secured which meant what? Everything was done out of FEAR. The same with how I would feel so ‘righteous’ to boast about the ‘falseness of catholic church’ which was only possible if I had my so-called ‘security’ in place from what I believe was the ‘true source of power’ / true god in this world as these light beings and this channel-based congregation that I would not even attend to on a regular basis, but twice or three times a year only. However we would only blatantly use them whenever we were in trouble. This is how I grew up with lots of fear as well, because I was taught how one could ‘pick up’ other beings’ ‘bad energies’ and become them, which is the absolute easy way to project any form of Self-Responsibility for what WE Experience within ourselves in our minds.I was also taught that I had to ‘protect me from envious people’ and that’s also another source of anxiety, constantly checking up people around me and fearing – more like backchatting about them apparently being against me and at some point it was as if ‘everyone against me’ and the delusion grew quite big as a constant point of conflict, which I later on knew it is mostly something that we all have as human beings that exist as the condition of survival in this world, which is obviously stemming from how we have accepted and allowed ourselves to live in a world configured to Only support some, and wherein being ‘out in the world’ would feel like being in a dog-race that I simply had to ensure I would always win –for what? Safety, happiness, success, fulfillment- as I have explained in the previous blogs. 

 

And so, in my righteousness, I only became part of the ‘opposition’ like the same type of disposition that people that call themselves ‘Spiritual’ boast out about Religions – mostly Christianity/ Catholicism –  so in that, I was already way ‘prepared’ to become a spearhead of any form of spiritual light and lovish movement wherein as I’ve explained various other times here in my blog, I wanted to end up creating my own religion, lol. Which is how I investigated quite a lot and the points that I would always end up seeing in common were yes, oneness, equality, the universe, chemical marriage, life – but all seen from this super fluffy furry perspective that I could get a positive kick out of, never really placing 1+1 together to in fact SEE and get to understand This World System, but only as another personality later on in my life of being the ‘informed citizen’/ member of the world, which was mostly an intellectual aspect linked to spirituality and making a concoction of these two with which I would feel quite proud of, having a mouth full of opinions without even daring to look at my own reality, as an individual and my participation within the delusional system that I was so happy criticizing and judging all the time, and I mean this: All the time. Quite the way that many of our current detractors and main critiques at Desteni spend their days as well, finding flaws outside of themselves due to the blatant resistance that is not being considered within common sense even: what you resist, persists and so, eventually the game of seeking ‘the bad guys’ outside of oneself becomes a rather sleazy way to abdicate Self Responsibility. I am glad I’ve stood up from this and realized that there is no point in opposing the system/ others, but rather Understanding the system, educating ourselves to see Why Religions exist, How it is that we would have actually been long-gone if a form of apparent ‘control’ was not existent such as the religious authority/ god beliefs that at least were able to create a bit of a ‘stop’ to our inherent human nature.

I can’t believe how much I’ve learned in the past months and all of this is thanks to letting go of anything I ever believed to be real, of course, and rather listen to the explanations as all the interviews published at Eqafe.

And to all of this: what did I Fear all this time? LOTS. Did I Ever even considered facing my fears? No way, ‘why would anyone want to do such a thing??’ – So, this was part of the aspect of how one tries to do good/ be the one that ‘unmask the false gods’ while only really wishing to benefit me, me and only me within it all, never really placing an eye onto ‘them’ and realizing I am ‘them’ as well – hell no, that would have stopped my battle against them, which is what our mind thrives one: friction and conflict – And so this is how I lived within myself and toward my world and reality,  until I encountered Desteni.

 

Continuation of the Elite Character

 

 

I forgive myself that I have accepted and allowed myself to define my ‘goodness’ based on acts that were mostly viewed as ‘supportive’ within society, such as helping others, cultivating one’s own self-image to succeed In this world wherein I learned I could later on just ‘give a helping hand’ to those in need, instead of actually having investigated why were people with money mostly considered as ‘good people’ and people that were poor were treated like criminals, wherein I then feared everything that I could have no control of, such as seeing poverty on the streets or people going crazy due to not having any form of support and instead of allowing me to understand how they had become such beings that I would react in fear to, I simply neglected them and considered that I simply had to continue ‘my path’ and worry about my own fulfillment and not feel ‘bad’ about others – wherein within this idea of me not having to ‘feel bad’ about others, I accepted it as it being ok that I do not give ‘much thought’ about poverty/ crime/ corruption in this country because I would simply go into anger instead of understanding- which is how I simply decided to ‘stick to the positive’ in order to no ‘affect me’ in my personal life by knowing how things actually worked.

 

I forgive myself that I accepted and allowed myself to define my goodness as in placing myself within a righteous position of being able to boast and criticize ‘the church’ mostly as a corrupt institution, generating even hatred emotions toward the organization and the authorities in it, without ever realizing that I was only judging them for what I had been taught they did as ‘mean people/ bad intentioned people’ while I never even questioned why it is that it wasn’t ‘bad’ or ‘mean’ to only seek for my own protection and well being  – as well as that of my family – creating an idea of myself as in doing some form of ‘justice’ in the world by ‘exposing the truths,’ without realizing that doing such form of activism as an opposition to religious authorities would mean nothing as I was absolutely unaware and ignorant of how the world system worked, and thus, created actually a relationship toward all things religious as a form of love and hate wherein I sought to ‘do good’ but in my own terms, which became then still seeking some form of power and grandeur outside of myself in the form of a religious belief that I could feel satisfied about – in this belief, never considering how I could for example, implement a system, a way for us all to stop living in fear and stop seeking to secured and having any form of ‘divine privileges’ but instead focus on solutions that could provide a dignified living for all, which reveals to what extent I was only busy seeking a self-enlightened interest, becoming some form of ‘liberator of society’ based on opposition, criticism, bashing toward the so called ‘evil’ as the church and other institutions, such as the government- never really seeing the ‘big picture’ of it all and how my opposition was also part of the necessary ‘balancing acts’ within the system to make it seem as if there was any real actual way of being able to ‘overcome it’ by force/ by opposition/ by revolutions – which has never been successful and should had already been proven as a useless way of trying to ‘make a change’ in this world, however it is still being worn as a nice ‘activist suit’ by many, that are living in protected ways by money/ house/ education, playing the ‘revolutionary intellectuals’ that in no way lead to a solution that is applicable and tangible toward this world. In this

 

I forgive myself that I accepted and allowed myself to identify myself with ‘like minded people’ that would perceive ourselves to actually ‘care’ about the world/ society by opposing, dissecting, criticizing and even ridiculing people in positions of power and authority – specifically people in government, media and popes – wherein I would get a positive kick out of being able to ‘bash them’ because of still having my ‘true god’ as a belief within me, which makes you ponder how we can only ‘boast’ and ‘bash’ and ‘oppose’ something or someone if there is a point of security one is holding on to – whether a belief, money or a relationship – it is all based on survival.

 

And so within this I realize to what extent this entire personality of being like the benevolent ‘libertarian’ was based on having a position to always be supported with, which is actually stemming from the money that exists as the fuel to this entire system based on slavery – which means I could in no way claim innocence/ being a good person by opposing the so called evil – and also realizing how it was fueled by a desire to be and become this ‘important person’ in society that would ‘free people’ within the starting point of opposing others/ bringing down certain powers in society, which indicates the level of ignorance really, lack of understanding how reality works which is how and why he Desteni material is the most important process of human education that All human beings should be exposed to.

I forgive myself that I have accepted and allowed myself to within the security and comfort of ‘having what I need to live,’ create a point of conflict in my reality such as wanting to ‘unmask the false preachers of god’ as the catholic church mainly wherein I wanted to ‘do good’ based on implementing my own idea of what ‘the real god/goodness’ was all about, which was yet another belief that I simply had accepted as a ‘purest form’ of the divine – being spiritual – and within this righteousness generate a relationship of hatred toward religious institutions wherein I believed that I had to be the one that would ‘speak the truth,’ without realizing how I only felt ‘strong enough’ to speak up because I would still have my ‘basic security’ as family/home/ money which enabled me to not worry to oppose the system, being quite ignorant as to how everything that I was judging is Also myself and is an aspect of myself as humanity that I am one and equally responsible for.

 

I forgive myself that I accepted and allowed myself to believe that creating a form of vengeance toward the system would make me a ‘good person’ like a hero that at the end of the day creates this fantastic heroic act of any concept of ‘doing good’ while missing out all the forces that are actually creating such ‘evil’ in this world, which is in fact beginning with ourselves and our own thinking processes and emotions/ feelings wherein we have been absolutely obvious about as human beings, only focusing on solutions ‘out there’ and never looking within ourselves, which is how the moment that we become aware of how our mind works, we immediately – if self honest enough – stop criticizing and judging and separating ourselves from everything and everyone in this world through a relationship of oppositions, as we understand how such point of ‘opposition’ was created, for what purpose, what was the intended reaction from human beings toward such point of ‘control’ and how I tis possible for us to stand up from it Without creating further opposition/ wars/ conflict of any form of vengeance or claiming ‘injustice’ because, we have to blatantly self honest with ourselves first, to clarify our starting point of any single time/ moment wherein within this self-righteous benevolent act of ‘doing good by bringing  the bad guys to justice’  we neglected our own participation in the very processes that fuel and lead to the entire world system as I tis, as the most vilest human creation that we have abdicated our responsibility from, which is unacceptable.

 

I forgive myself that I accepted and allowed myself to not see how I was in fact fearful about that which I opposed and that my act of ‘opposing’ the system/ the church/ institutions and constantly finding flaws in it, only lead me to a position of feeling disempowered-  and I repeat FEELING disempowered because I in fact was still being supported in order to remain within a physical security such as having money to eat, education which I used as a platform to ensue this ‘opposition’ without any point really, but making myself seem ‘righteous’ and ‘common sensed’ without being self honest about my reality, which implied that I could only take this vantage position of ‘revolting’ by denying the very system I was feeding myself from. Thus, missing out the entire ‘point’ of any form of change in this world and in fact, using this ‘righteous citizen/ person that cares’ character as a way to further neglect Looking within myself, my true desires to actually be in a position wherein I could live well and continue opposing the system as that which I learned from elitist academics, that I wanted to form a part of: intellectualizing revolutions, theorizing society in order to propose further ‘solutions’ only on ink and paper-  while earning good wages with it through writing or teaching at school. Thus I see and realize how my initial desires of ‘doing good’ were obviously not unconditional, but well planned and veered toward an inevitable position of power and even authority in the ‘intellectual world’ while remaining protected with money/ the necessary to live ‘well’ or more than well if possible.

 

I realize that self interest is always behind any form of ‘doing good’ or ‘justice’ and that we have never in fact been absolutely devoid of self interest to move ourselves to propitiate a change in this world, which is why change has never really existed, and no revolution has even been REAL for that matter. Thus, time to unmask the revolutionary, time to take Self Responsibility first, to see who we are as our own mind, How did we create this opposition toward the system and how it is in our hands that we are able to create an actual solution by living it, becoming it, working as a group world wide and stands as the actual point of Self-Responsibility in Self-Honesty that promotes an Equality system such as the Equal Money System wherein we all learn to be Self Responsible and within that, get equal support within the realization that opposition creates division, creates conflict and ensues wars. Such diatribes must stop – and so we begin with ourselves.

I commit myself to explain and educate myself and others about how within an attempt to ‘oppose the system’ and ‘bring down the bad government’ we are taking the righteous superior position of apparently being ‘innocent’ about the current conditions in this world, which is not acceptable, since there is no point in blaming but understanding the problems and instead of launching wars against each other to obtain the point of power, we can work together to establish solutions which would be in fact using time to our benefit as humanity, considering all living beings – and stopping all forms of separation, division, conflict within any false sense of righteousness and justice to the benefit of ‘some only’ – this is standing for ALL in Equality.

Desteni

Desteni Forum 

Desteni I Process

Desteni Lite Process

Equal Money System

This will continue..

Bossing

 

Blogs:

Have you Seen my Happiness Anywhere? (Part 1): DAY 204

Day 204: After Death Communication – Part 52

 

 

Interviews:

Demons in the Afterlife – Part 1

The Crucifixion of Jesus – Part 16

The Crucifixion of Jesus – Part 17


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